* [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview
@ 2010-04-11 15:54 Anirudh Sanjeev
2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra
` (5 more replies)
0 siblings, 6 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
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Hi,
I took the liberty to give the Sup frontpage a facelift. I re-used some
creative commons work without much modification to make something that
looks really good. Please check out the current work in progress here:
http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/
I also wrote a detailed guide on getting Sup up and running with Gmail as
many people aren't able to figure out what exactly to do initially. The
guide is available in the same page.
I feel sup is really good and is the only client that scratches my itch.
I want more people to start using it and feel that an aesthetically
pleasing website and a better introduction will help convince people sup is
worth the effort of moving.
Also, I was under the impression writing a project in ruby and not having a
really nice website for it is a syntax error :)
Please provide any feedback about the design and contents.
Thanks,
Anirudh
--
http://anirudhsanjeev.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra 2010-04-11 16:39 ` Ben Walton 2010-04-11 17:43 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Ramkumar Ramachandra @ 2010-04-11 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Anirudh Sanjeev; +Cc: sup-talk > http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/ Neat design. Small quirk: I noticed that the "# ui = Noninteractive.Quiet" line breaks due to the (very) long comment. Perhaps you want to shorten it for the benefit of those who're blindly copy-pasting? -- Ram _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra @ 2010-04-11 16:39 ` Ben Walton 2010-04-11 17:43 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Ben Walton @ 2010-04-11 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Excerpts from Ramkumar Ramachandra's message of Sun Apr 11 12:15:33 -0400 2010: > > http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/ > > Neat design. Small quirk: I noticed that the "# ui = Agreed. This has a very nice look to it. -Ben -- Ben Walton Systems Programmer - CHASS University of Toronto C:416.407.5610 | W:416.978.4302 _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra 2010-04-11 16:39 ` Ben Walton @ 2010-04-11 17:43 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ramkumar Ramachandra; +Cc: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 297 bytes --] Excerpts from Ramkumar Ramachandra's message of Sun Apr 11 21:45:33 +0530 2010: > Neat design. Thanks! > Perhaps you want to shorten it for the benefit of those who're blindly > copy-pasting? Then they shouldn't be using sup in the first place :) Thanks, Anirudh -- http://anirudhsanjeev.org [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra @ 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos 2010-04-11 19:56 ` Michael Stapelberg ` (2 more replies) 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Rogutės Sparnuotos @ 2010-04-11 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Anirudh Sanjeev (2010-04-11 21:24): > Hi, > > I took the liberty to give the Sup frontpage a facelift. I re-used some > creative commons work without much modification to make something that > looks really good. Please check out the current work in progress here: > > http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/ > > I also wrote a detailed guide on getting Sup up and running with Gmail as > many people aren't able to figure out what exactly to do initially. The > guide is available in the same page. > > I feel sup is really good and is the only client that scratches my itch. > I want more people to start using it and feel that an aesthetically > pleasing website and a better introduction will help convince people sup is > worth the effort of moving. > > Also, I was under the impression writing a project in ruby and not having a > really nice website for it is a syntax error :) > > Please provide any feedback about the design and contents. I am not a user of sup - might try again when 0.12 comes out. But I am sensitive when it comes to websites, so here goes my feedback. Why is the original site bad? I think that it provides more information and takes less vertical space. Only the screenshots could be bigger (and perhaps 4 instead of 6?). It looks like what you are proposing is not a new website, but a shift in targeted audience. You seem to be addressing the naive user, while forgetting the more technical ones. I would suggest to aim for the middle, going for the aesthetic looks (or at least matching the style of the homepage and the wiki), but keeping the technical tongue (is there any need to change the content of the current website?). There is this sentence at http://sup.rubyforge.org/: " The goal of Sup is to become the email client of choice for nerds everywhere. " And you seem to agree with it in a later mail: > Perhaps you want to shorten it for the benefit of those who're blindly > copy-pasting? > > Then they shouldn't be using sup in the first place :) But you do contradict yourself and that statement with the proposed design: 1. Your design doesn't work without javascript: * Why would an overview of the features need animation? What does the animation give to the user, besides hiding a handful of text? Perhaps a feeling that the software in question might have hidden features? 2. First 700px of the page show nothing useful, except for a screenshot and big letters. 3. Some very useful, even if technical, pieces information has been lost in conversion: "Handle massive amounts of email." " The current version of Sup is 0.11, released 2010-03-07. This is a beta release. It supports mbox and Maildir mailstores. " " you can clone the git repository like so: git clone git://gitorious.org/sup/mainline.git " 4. You have replaced the credit to Xapian and RubyMail with the credit to the authors of the website :) As for the GMail guide, wouldn't it be very useful in the wiki? -- -- Rogutės Sparnuotos _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos @ 2010-04-11 19:56 ` Michael Stapelberg 2010-04-11 20:12 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-12 7:25 ` Tero Tilus 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Michael Stapelberg @ 2010-04-11 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Hi Rogutės, Excerpts from Rogutės Sparnuotos's message of 2010-04-11 21:33:58 +0200: > Why is the original site bad? I think that it provides more information > and takes less vertical space. Only the screenshots could be bigger > (and perhaps 4 instead of 6?). It is hard to read and does not look good, IMO. > 1. Your design doesn't work without javascript: I didn’t notice that. I was able to view it just fine without JavaScript. That being said, I very much suggest not using JavaScript for such a website (containing static information only). > 3. Some very useful, even if technical, pieces information has been lost in > conversion: I think the website draft was not final on which information should be on it, just an idea where the design could go. Best regards, Michael _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos 2010-04-11 19:56 ` Michael Stapelberg @ 2010-04-11 20:12 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 22:47 ` rogutes 2010-04-12 7:25 ` Tero Tilus 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Rogutės Sparnuotos; +Cc: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6697 bytes --] Hi, I'm sorry, I don't buy the "intelligent/experienced/developer users don't care about the frontend design" idea. What I'm talking about is, for lack of a better term, "professionalism". If anyone comes to a website, regardless of how experienced they are, the decision is already made. If there isn't any apparent effort gone into the user facing landing page, the user might get the impression that the project isn't mature or worthy enough for active usage as well. A funny story I just wrote to someone about: Someone wrote a python web framework called "Denied": http://denied.immersedcode.org/ Go check the website. It looks very interesting - a new minimalist lightweight python web framework - complete with code snippets and screencasts. It got a lot of positive response from the intelligent Hacker News and Github communities. Turns out it was an April Fools' joke. But that proves a point - people are highly influenced by the quality of the tool. Excerpts from Rogutės Sparnuotos's message of Mon Apr 12 01:03:58 +0530 2010: > Why is the original site bad? I think that it provides more information > and takes less vertical space. Only the screenshots could be bigger > (and perhaps 4 instead of 6?). Why is vertical space bad? I am not saying that the old website is bad. It isn't immediately obvious what the exact _killer functionality_ of sup is, unless you take a very close look. My design makes it _immediately obvious_ why sup is going to positively affect their lives, and reinforces it with visual feedback. If you notice, the ruby language does the same thing: http://ruby-lang.org They don't need to show a code sample, but they do it anyway as people need to _see_ what is so great about it. > It looks like what you are proposing is not a new website, but a shift in > targeted audience. You seem to be addressing the naive user, while > forgetting the more technical ones. I would suggest to aim for the middle, > going for the aesthetic looks (or at least matching the style of the > homepage and the wiki), but keeping the technical tongue (is there any > need to change the content of the current website?). While I'm a programmer now, I spent a very large amount of time learning about Usability. Usability is what makes GMail and Sup so much better to use. And usability is not only about making buttons bigger or keyboard shortcuts nicer. It's a lot about putting the important information in the places where people are more likely to look - so that people avoid having to look and give up. > There is this sentence at http://sup.rubyforge.org/: > " > The goal of Sup is to become the email client of choice for nerds > everywhere. > " > > And you seem to agree with it in a later mail: > > Perhaps you want to shorten it for the benefit of those who're blindly > > copy-pasting? > > > Then they shouldn't be using sup in the first place :) > > But you do contradict yourself and that statement with the proposed By the extension of your logic, the ruby gems website: http://rubygems.org/ Needs to be coded solely in <h1> and <h2> as well. I'm sure that the website is not the way it currently is because it's intended to be that way to attract the targeted audience, but rather because the devs just didn't have the interest to work on the design. > 1. Your design doesn't work without javascript: Agreed. Nor does the rest of the Internet. > * Why would an overview of the features need animation? What does the > animation give to the user, besides hiding a handful of text? > Perhaps a feeling that the software in question might have hidden > features? The animation gives the user nothing. It merely makes it seem slightly more appealing. Also, the user can find out more about specific features that interests him/her. > 2. First 700px of the page show nothing useful, except for a screenshot > and big letters. Have you heard of "minimalism"? There's a reason why clean desks and rooms are more enjoyable than cluttered dirty ones. It's not a developer/end-user thing it's a human thing. > 3. Some very useful, even if technical, pieces information has been lost in > conversion: > "Handle massive amounts of email." > > " > The current version of Sup is 0.11, released 2010-03-07. This is a beta > release. It supports mbox and Maildir mailstores. > " > > " > you can clone the git repository like so: > git clone git://gitorious.org/sup/mainline.git > " I just hacked together this website for a few hours, even despite having my own projects to work on. I will be putting the source code up on github soon. I never mentioned this is the final design, let alone the final content. > 4. You have replaced the credit to Xapian and RubyMail with the credit to > the authors of the website :) Again, that slipped my notice. Thank you for pointing it out. I'll put it up there. I am required to put up the main author's website because of attribution laws. But I will be removing my own name as my contribution isn't significant enough to merit credit. > As for the GMail guide, wouldn't it be very useful in the wiki? It's been on the wiki for four months. I wrote it. It's very hard to find on the wiki. I hope this again, reinforces my "don't make everything harder to find just because you target advanced users" belief. Instead of taking the most important information and putting it somewhere you'll have to google around for, put it right where people would expect to find it. tl;dr: It has nothing to do with a target audience. Saying a more pleasing website does not appeal to hackers is mild stereotyping, and I am not sure whether to be flattered or offended. I've seen this issue a lot before - we write awesome, incredible code and put it up on a wiki, and don't put in even a hundredth of effort doing design as it's not intellectually satisfying. So you've got great projects which fail to distinguish themselves from the crowd - on wikis and github accounts around the world, there are great projects just like sup nobody takes notice of. And then you wonder why nobody is interested in your project. It happened to me and my projects as well. What I'm hoping is that if someone visits the sup site, they should be excited and interested to try it out - and having something mildly professional and something that seems to have some effort put into it will surely help. More people trying it out is better for all of us. This is just a proposed facelift. The devs decide what happens and what doesn't. I just posted to get some constructive feedback and I'm sure I'll get some real soon. Thanks, Anirudh -- http://anirudhsanjeev.org [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 20:12 ` Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 22:47 ` rogutes 2010-04-12 5:30 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: rogutes @ 2010-04-11 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Anirudh Sanjeev; +Cc: sup-talk Anirudh Sanjeev (2010-04-12 01:42): > Hi, > > I'm sorry, I don't buy the "intelligent/experienced/developer users don't > care about the frontend design" idea. But the frontend of Sup is the ncurses client, isn't it? I do care about my e-mail client's UI, I care less about its website. <..snip..> > Excerpts from Rogutės Sparnuotos's message of Mon Apr 12 01:03:58 +0530 2010: > > Why is the original site bad? I think that it provides more information > > and takes less vertical space. Only the screenshots could be bigger > > (and perhaps 4 instead of 6?). > Why is vertical space bad? I am not saying that the old website is bad. It > isn't immediately obvious what the exact _killer functionality_ of sup is, > unless you take a very close look. _Wasted_ vertical space is bad: the more you see of the real content, the faster you skim through. <..snip..> > > 2. First 700px of the page show nothing useful, except for a screenshot > > and big letters. > Have you heard of "minimalism"? There's a reason why clean desks and rooms > are more enjoyable than cluttered dirty ones. It's not a developer/end-user > thing it's a human thing. Sup's home is a very good example of HTML minimalism. It has minimal design, too. And is enjoyable. A matter of taste, I guess. Your proposed list of features seems to enforce structure by design, but it fails to carry out its mission by succumbing to javascript fun. But yes, the current website could put some kind of emphasis on the features section. <..snip..> > > As for the GMail guide, wouldn't it be very useful in the wiki? > It's been on the wiki for four months. I wrote it. It's very hard to find > on the wiki. > > I hope this again, reinforces my "don't make everything harder to find just > because you target advanced users" belief. Instead of taking the most > important information and putting it somewhere you'll have to google around > for, put it right where people would expect to find it. The point is that the wiki, not the homepage, needs a facelift. And the homepage could list the most visited pages of the wiki. I've seen the GMail guide in the wiki prior sending my mail and I still feel that such a guide is more appropriate there. > tl;dr: It has nothing to do with a target audience. Saying a more pleasing > website does not appeal to hackers is mild stereotyping, and I am not sure > whether to be flattered or offended. > > I've seen this issue a lot before - we write awesome, incredible code and > put it up on a wiki, and don't put in even a hundredth of effort doing > design as it's not intellectually satisfying. So you've got great projects > which fail to distinguish themselves from the crowd - on wikis and github > accounts around the world, there are great projects just like sup nobody > takes notice of. > > And then you wonder why nobody is interested in your project. It happened > to me and my projects as well. > > What I'm hoping is that if someone visits the sup site, they should be > excited and interested to try it out - and having something mildly > professional and something that seems to have some effort put into it will > surely help. More people trying it out is better for all of us. > > This is just a proposed facelift. The devs decide what happens and what > doesn't. I just posted to get some constructive feedback and I'm sure I'll > get some real soon. I was trying to compare the current website with the proposed one, criticizing the latter. Even if you didn't make the design, you have chosen it. I found the colors ok, but I didn't like non-degrading javascript and the amount of vertical space wasted. Next, instead of copying the content, you replaced it with your version. If yours would be chosen as final, I would mourn the current one, so I raised my points about it. Anyway, our dialogue looks incompatible: you seem to be worried about projects lost in web space, whereas I am worried about the trends of the web. One more issue adding to the incompatibility might be the destructive tone I initially chose. Sorry about that. -- -- Rogutės Sparnuotos _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 22:47 ` rogutes @ 2010-04-12 5:30 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-12 5:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rogutes; +Cc: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3764 bytes --] Hi Roguetes, Excerpts from rogutes's message of Mon Apr 12 04:17:00 +0530 2010: > But the frontend of Sup is the ncurses client, isn't it? I do care about > my e-mail client's UI, I care less about its website. Please don't mix up a good UI and a graphical UI. Sup has a fantastic user interface. If it put all of the information in a non-organized non-efficient manner, the result might not be as pleasing as one might have originally thought. As for the website, I think that the proposed changes with the content migrated will make it more appealing to potential users, and for hardcore users who do not care less about a website, and rather evaluate a product on it's own merits - it wouldn't bother them. > _Wasted_ vertical space is bad: the more you see of the real content, the > faster you skim through. If you need to "skim through" then the content should be very precise, highlighted and in a very simple manner - which it currently isn't. > Your proposed list of features seems to enforce structure by design, but > it fails to carry out its mission by succumbing to javascript fun. But > yes, the current website could put some kind of emphasis on the features > section. If I see a new project's website, the number one question on my mind is "How will this impact my life positively". I want people to understand that sup will definitely change how they work for the better. > The point is that the wiki, not the homepage, needs a facelift. And the > homepage could list the most visited pages of the wiki. > I've seen the GMail guide in the wiki prior sending my mail and I still > feel that such a guide is more appropriate there. The guide is still there on the wiki, and I just thought it might be useful to put more important "Getting Started" information readily available. I noticed one interesting thing however - sup-config presents a nice "wizard" to configure your email, and is very user-friendly (as opposed to editing a .suprc). However, if a user feels that all he/she needs to get started and get efficient is just sup (and doesn't know about offlineimap and msmtp), then he/she might not get the full blown experience. > copying the content, you replaced it with your version. If yours would be > chosen as final, I would mourn the current one, so I raised my points > about it. I still have to migrate most of the content - I tried to include as much as possible. You have already mentioned a few which I've already incorporated (but can't push changes right now as I have some connectivity issues), but this isn't a problem specifically. Still, you have a very valid point - this isn't the optimum iteration of the frontpage for sup's intended audience. But the question I ask is if the old variant is, and if the new variant is better/worse off than the old one. > Anyway, our dialogue looks incompatible: you seem to be worried about > projects lost in web space, whereas I am worried about the trends of the > web. One more issue adding to the incompatibility might be the destructive > tone I initially chose. Sorry about that. I just find one thing disheartening - so many developers write a great tool but lose motivation as it doesn't gather a great following. And also so many users are looking for a good tool (how many people are out there looking for a better email client), and even when the find the right one, they're so "numbed" by the quick-click internet out there, that they just ignore it unless it absolutely stands out. As for trends on the web, I'm not a big "web2.0" person either. But I know the value of good typography (for instance, are you happy putting a bad font on your console), and presenting content in a manner that's easy to grok. Thank you, Anirudh -- http://anirudhsanjeev.org [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos 2010-04-11 19:56 ` Michael Stapelberg 2010-04-11 20:12 ` Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-12 7:25 ` Tero Tilus 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Tero Tilus @ 2010-04-12 7:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Rogutės Sparnuotos, 2010-04-11 22:33: > It looks like what you are proposing is not a new website, but a > shift in targeted audience. I don't think it is. But it might be just me. > You seem to be addressing the naive user, while forgetting the more > technical ones. I don't really agree with this point either. Except that the features list is missing configurability & extensibility (keybindings and hooks). The features list is an issue worth a conversation. > There is this sentence at http://sup.rubyforge.org/: > " > The goal of Sup is to become the email client of choice for nerds > everywhere. > " Thats a real point I think. IMO "client of choice for nerds" is relevant and will be for quite some time to come. > 2. First 700px of the page show nothing useful, except for a screenshot > and big letters. I find the features list, screenshot(s), main navigation and app name very, very usefull. > 3. Some very useful, even if technical, pieces information has been lost in > conversion: > "Handle massive amounts of email." The point is there, though not with those exact words. Introduction starts "Sup is a console-based email client for people with a lot of email". > " > you can clone the git repository like so: > git clone git://gitorious.org/sup/mainline.git > " Link to gitorious project page (which is there) is IMO better than cloning instructions. > 4. You have replaced the credit to Xapian and RubyMail with the credit to > the authors of the website :) Xapian credit is in the features list, but RubyMail credit is indeed missing. > As for the GMail guide, wouldn't it be very useful in the wiki? +1 HOWTOs should IMO be in wiki. That helps to keep them up to date. -- Tero Tilus ## 050 3635 235 ## http://tero.tilus.net/ _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos @ 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp 2010-04-11 21:14 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-12 7:56 ` Tero Tilus 2010-04-12 6:53 ` Tero Tilus ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Philipp @ 2010-04-11 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Excerpts from Anirudh Sanjeev's message of 2010-04-11 17:54:21 +0200: > Hi, > > I took the liberty to give the Sup frontpage a facelift. I re-used some > creative commons work without much modification to make something that > looks really good. Please check out the current work in progress here: > > http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/ > > I also wrote a detailed guide on getting Sup up and running with Gmail as > many people aren't able to figure out what exactly to do initially. The > guide is available in the same page. > > I feel sup is really good and is the only client that scratches my itch. > I want more people to start using it and feel that an aesthetically > pleasing website and a better introduction will help convince people sup is > worth the effort of moving. > > Also, I was under the impression writing a project in ruby and not having a > really nice website for it is a syntax error :) > > Please provide any feedback about the design and contents. > > Thanks, > Anirudh Hi, I don't try to put down your work, but it's not something I'd fall for. It's too web2.0ey for me, too much attention hog, too much bragging. It's very well possible that I wouldn't have tried sup with that website. The JS thing with description and changing image is a nice idea, but I'd either not click it (because I'd read the site first and had to assume it leads me to another one) or tried to open it in another tab and wondered why it didn't work or I'd click it on purpose, assuming it would lead me to another page and would have been negatively surprised because of the little bit of bragging information I got. The gmail featured so prominently would have put me off as well, I'd assume it's written mainly for gmail. I don't claim the current sup page is great, it also lacks in a few areas. I focused mainly on the negative aspects of your page, but it has a few improvements over the current page as well, mainly the links at the top, which make navigation to other parts of the page a bit easier. Regards, Philipp _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp @ 2010-04-11 21:14 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-12 7:56 ` Tero Tilus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-11 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philipp; +Cc: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3452 bytes --] Hi Phillip, Excerpts from Philipp's message of Mon Apr 12 02:17:57 +0530 2010: > I don't try to put down your work, but it's not something I'd fall for. > It's too web2.0ey for me, too much attention hog, too much bragging. > It's very well possible that I wouldn't have tried sup with that website. I understand what you're saying. I didn't do any of the design - I should mention this upfront. I'm not a design person at all. I just thought some other Creative Commons licensed work was good and thought I could modify it to benefit some other project. > The JS thing with description and changing image is a nice idea, but I'd > either not click it (because I'd read the site first and had to assume > it leads me to another one) or tried to open it in another tab and > wondered why it didn't work or I'd click it on purpose, assuming it > would lead me to another page and would have been negatively surprised > because of the little bit of bragging information I got. The tone does seem like it's a little pretentious, yes. Any suggestions on how the content can be changed will be addressed. The fact that the link is > The gmail featured so prominently would have put me off as well, I'd > assume it's written mainly for gmail. I only put it up as I wrote the content earlier and many people mentioned it helped them get started with sup. While IMAP is supported out of the box, most people use OfflineImap, and msmtp support is not that significantly documented. For me, it's about conversion ratio. If n users come on to the site, and m users finally end up installing and using sup, we need to make that ratio better. Since most people use the IMAP setup - having the instructions for that more prominently featured on the page will help them have a more gratifying experience. I speak very strongly about "gratification". If user X comes on, downloads, installs and has to fish around just to get started, then there's a good chance he/she will give up and move on with their lives, unless they are _actively_ looking for a good email client in which case the website wouldn't have mattered anyways. > I don't claim the current sup page is great, it also lacks in a few > areas. I focused mainly on the negative aspects of your page, but it has > a few improvements over the current page as well, mainly the links at > the top, which make navigation to other parts of the page a bit easier. I don't have any issue with it either. I can recount my own experience when I started out with sup. I saw the sup website. Thought "oh, another console email client" and moved on, but bookmarked it on delicious before leaving. I used to use mutt and evolution at this point in time. The pain points got to me and I finally ended up trying sup, and had to figure out a good deal of things on my own - notably how to get offlineimap, msmtp and sup to play together. If I had seen a more appealing and in-your-face website, I might have considered giving it a bit more interest. I guess it's not about looking good as much as it is about standing out. There are a lot of other projects and mail clients over there, and a more memorable and appealing design will make people give it the attention I feel sup deserves. Then again, I feel compelled to inform that I didn't do much of the design. If the community feels that this isn't a step in the right direction, it would be perfectly fine. Thanks, Anirudh -- http://anirudhsanjeev.org [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp 2010-04-11 21:14 ` Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-12 7:56 ` Tero Tilus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Tero Tilus @ 2010-04-12 7:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Philipp, 2010-04-11 23:47: > The JS thing with description and changing image is a nice idea, but > I'd either not click it (because I'd read the site first and had to > assume it leads me to another one) Fair point. The list should have some visual clue to suggest that items are not links but just switch between "tabs". Maybe a surrounding box and small down arrow (kinda like http://guides.rubyonrails.org/ "Guides Index" has) to give the feeling of opening a box/list instead of clicking a hyperlink. -- Tero Tilus ## 050 3635 235 ## http://tero.tilus.net/ _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp @ 2010-04-12 6:53 ` Tero Tilus 2010-04-14 12:34 ` William Morgan 2010-04-14 12:32 ` William Morgan 2010-04-14 18:30 ` Michael Stipicevic 5 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Tero Tilus @ 2010-04-12 6:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Anirudh Sanjeev, 2010-04-11 18:54: > I took the liberty to give the Sup frontpage a facelift. [...] > Please provide any feedback about the design and contents. I like it very much. The way the features are introduced is just awesome! Only without javascript the layout somewhat explodes. Would it be too much to ask if the source-order and default styles (to be modified using js) would be such that the feature introduction texts and respective images would be laid out side-by-side aligned if js was not available? > Also, I was under the impression writing a project in ruby and not > having a really nice website for it is a syntax error :) Right about that... Which reminds me of logo. Would it be cool to have one for sup? I missed a sup-icon when i was setting up "one touch to sup" (just plain quicklaunch `ssh myself@mysupbox -t screen -drU`) for my n900. Currently sup is only a beveled, rounded blue square on my communications-desktop. :) -- Tero Tilus ## 050 3635 235 ## http://tero.tilus.net/ _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-12 6:53 ` Tero Tilus @ 2010-04-14 12:34 ` William Morgan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: William Morgan @ 2010-04-14 12:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Reformatted excerpts from Tero Tilus's message of 2010-04-12: > Which reminds me of logo. Would it be cool to have one for sup? I > missed a sup-icon when i was setting up "one touch to sup" (just plain > quicklaunch `ssh myself@mysupbox -t screen -drU`) for my n900. Let's just steal the gmail logo and replace the M with an S. :) -- William <wmorgan-sup@masanjin.net> _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2010-04-12 6:53 ` Tero Tilus @ 2010-04-14 12:32 ` William Morgan 2010-04-14 18:55 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-14 18:30 ` Michael Stipicevic 5 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: William Morgan @ 2010-04-14 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk Reformatted excerpts from Anirudh Sanjeev's message of 2010-04-11: > http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/ Personally I like this design. I think it's a lot more visually appealing than the original page, without going too much into world of web 2.0 gradients and shiny bubbles, which is something I would like to avoid. There are some tweaks I would make to the content--in particular, I like the tagline "the email client of choice for nerds everywhere", and references to IMAP should probably be removed--but I'm fine with the design as a whole. I also do like having the Gmail "quick"start guide readily available. The wiki has an aura of decay around it (if someone wants to clean it up, I will award Sup Points (tm)). Having the guide on the homepage would be super convenient. I'd prefer to have it be a separate page, and sit alongside an mbox/Maildir quickstart guide. -- William <wmorgan-sup@masanjin.net> _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-14 12:32 ` William Morgan @ 2010-04-14 18:55 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Anirudh Sanjeev @ 2010-04-14 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 970 bytes --] Excerpts from William Morgan's message of Wed Apr 14 18:02:03 +0530 2010: > Personally I like this design. I think it's a lot more visually > appealing than the original page, without going too much into world of > web 2.0 gradients and shiny bubbles, which is something I would like to > avoid. Thank you :) > There are some tweaks I would make to the content--in particular, I like > the tagline "the email client of choice for nerds everywhere", and > references to IMAP should probably be removed--but I'm fine with the > design as a whole. I've put the entire code on github: http://github.com/ninjagod/misc/tree/master/supsite/ Please send changes you feel fit as patches or send me a pull request. I am unfortunately a little busy with university work till the weekend. I plan to change the GMail specific guide to a generic IMAP guide. If a user plans to use Sup, they can figure out how to change it for Gmail. Thanks, Anirudh -- http://anirudhsanjeev.org [-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2010-04-14 12:32 ` William Morgan @ 2010-04-14 18:30 ` Michael Stipicevic 5 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Michael Stipicevic @ 2010-04-14 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Anirudh Sanjeev; +Cc: sup-talk [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 772 bytes --] On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Anirudh Sanjeev < anirudh@anirudhsanjeev.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I took the liberty to give the Sup frontpage a facelift. I re-used some > creative commons work without much modification to make something that > looks really good. I'm a huge fan of the quick instructions to get an offlineimap/msmtp stack set up. You can't properly use sup without these (or another Maildir/smtp setup) and a user installing sup for the first time might be disappointed when IMAP takes half an hour. I think it would be important to shy away from calling it 'up and running with gmail' -- it makes sup look just like 'gmail on the console' and might discourage users from trying it out -- if sup is just gmail on the console, why should I care? - Mike [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1085 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 140 bytes --] _______________________________________________ sup-talk mailing list sup-talk@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview
@ 2010-04-11 16:23 Michael Stapelberg
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Stapelberg @ 2010-04-11 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
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Hi Anirudh,
Excerpts from Anirudh Sanjeev's message of 2010-04-11 17:54:21 +0200:
> looks really good. Please check out the current work in progress here:
> http://anirudhsanjeev.org/temp/supsite/
This looks very good!
I see the following problems:
1) Rendering is broken in Firefox 3.5.6, the "INTRODUCTION" headline overlaps
previous text. See the attached screenshot.
2) Umlauts are broken in the list of contributors.
3) The header might be a bit large for mobile devices. At least for the other
pages (docs, …) I would suggest making it smaller, maybe just putting the
"Sup" in the left top edge.
Apart from that, very good work. Keep it up :-).
Best regards,
Michael
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in threadend of thread, other threads:[~2010-04-14 19:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-04-11 15:54 [sup-talk] New website design for sup - preview Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 16:15 ` Ramkumar Ramachandra 2010-04-11 16:39 ` Ben Walton 2010-04-11 17:43 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 19:33 ` Rogutės Sparnuotos 2010-04-11 19:56 ` Michael Stapelberg 2010-04-11 20:12 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-11 22:47 ` rogutes 2010-04-12 5:30 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-12 7:25 ` Tero Tilus 2010-04-11 20:47 ` Philipp 2010-04-11 21:14 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-12 7:56 ` Tero Tilus 2010-04-12 6:53 ` Tero Tilus 2010-04-14 12:34 ` William Morgan 2010-04-14 12:32 ` William Morgan 2010-04-14 18:55 ` Anirudh Sanjeev 2010-04-14 18:30 ` Michael Stipicevic 2010-04-11 16:23 Michael Stapelberg
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