* [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
@ 2010-11-27 18:17 Lurkos
2010-11-27 20:26 ` Damien Leone
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-27 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Hello all!
It's quite a long time ago since I started to look for an e-mail
client with features like Gmail, and it seems that *sup* fulfill these
requirements.
First of all I would like to great all the contributors for their work.
However I have a couple of questions to better understand how *sup* works.
I've read in the latest History file that IMAP support is deprecated.
Are you going to drop it? I mainly use IMAP to read my e-mail boxes,
because I need to deal with them from different workstations (say:
home, office, laptop, etc.).
For this reason the local Maildir approach won't work for me.
Are the labels stored in a local database or also stored as flags via IMAP?
Of course the second choice would be much more beneficial for people
using e-mail from different locations.
What happens if a new message is added to the mail spool from another
source? Does *sup-sync* preserve labels already associated?
Is it possible to _delete_ a message via IMAP (say: mark as \Deleted
and then Expunge, using IMAP terminology)? According to your FAQ, it
seems that only mbox spools support a real delete process.
About message composition, do you have any recommended editor, given
the fact that I never used a lot Vi nor Emacs?
Thank for your help!
--
Lurkos
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* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-27 18:17 [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors Lurkos
@ 2010-11-27 20:26 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-27 20:57 ` Moritz Wilhelmy
2010-11-28 1:27 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Damien Leone @ 2010-11-27 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Hi,
Excerpts from Lurkos's message of sam. nov. 27 19:17:46 +0100 2010:
> I've read in the latest History file that IMAP support is deprecated.
> Are you going to drop it? I mainly use IMAP to read my e-mail boxes,
> because I need to deal with them from different workstations (say:
> home, office, laptop, etc.).
> For this reason the local Maildir approach won't work for me.
You can use offlineimap to fetch e-mails from your IMAP server and
save them as Maildir that are then added in sup. By setting your hooks
properly you can automatically call offlineimap before polling (see
the wiki).
> Are the labels stored in a local database or also stored as flags via IMAP?
> Of course the second choice would be much more beneficial for people
> using e-mail from different locations.
> What happens if a new message is added to the mail spool from another
> source? Does *sup-sync* preserve labels already associated?
Everything is stored locally, sup does not modify the Maildir sources
but there is a maildir-sync branch that allows you to keep
synchronized in both directions between your IMAP server and your sup
database. This is still under development though.
> Is it possible to _delete_ a message via IMAP (say: mark as \Deleted
> and then Expunge, using IMAP terminology)? According to your FAQ, it
> seems that only mbox spools support a real delete process.
Same as above.
> About message composition, do you have any recommended editor, given
> the fact that I never used a lot Vi nor Emacs?
I use emacs with post-mode.
Cheers,
--
Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr>
Web: http://dleone.fensalir.fr/
GPG: 0x82EB4DDF
_______________________________________________
sup-talk mailing list
sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-27 20:26 ` Damien Leone
@ 2010-11-27 20:57 ` Moritz Wilhelmy
2010-11-27 23:34 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 1:27 ` Lurkos
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Moritz Wilhelmy @ 2010-11-27 20:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Excerpts from Damien Leone's message of Sat Nov 27 21:26:43 +0100 2010:
> > I've read in the latest History file that IMAP support is deprecated.
> > Are you going to drop it? I mainly use IMAP to read my e-mail boxes,
> > because I need to deal with them from different workstations (say:
> > home, office, laptop, etc.).
> > For this reason the local Maildir approach won't work for me.
>
> You can use offlineimap to fetch e-mails from your IMAP server and
> save them as Maildir that are then added in sup. By setting your hooks
> properly you can automatically call offlineimap before polling (see
> the wiki).
Alternatives to offlineimap to store mail in mbox/maildir include getmail
(which is what I use) and fetchmail.
> > About message composition, do you have any recommended editor, given
> > the fact that I never used a lot Vi nor Emacs?
>
> I use emacs with post-mode.
sup's keybindings are modeled largely after mutt's, and not really modeled
after neither vim nor emacs, so you don't have any benefits in learning
how to use sup if you already know how to use vim/emacs (or vice versa).
sup has a setting where you can change your preferred editor. As far as I
remember, the tool that initially writes the configuration (`sup-config')
defaults to vim.
Personally, I use vim with mail-syntax-hilighting.
Best regards,
Moritz
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* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-27 20:57 ` Moritz Wilhelmy
@ 2010-11-27 23:34 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-27 23:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Moritz Wilhelmy <moritz+sup@wzff.de> wrote:
>>> I've read in the latest History file that IMAP support is deprecated.
>>> Are you going to drop it? I mainly use IMAP to read my e-mail boxes,
>>> because I need to deal with them from different workstations (say:
>>> home, office, laptop, etc.).
>>> For this reason the local Maildir approach won't work for me.
>>
>> You can use offlineimap to fetch e-mails from your IMAP server and
>> save them as Maildir that are then added in sup. By setting your hooks
>> properly you can automatically call offlineimap before polling (see
>> the wiki).
>
> Alternatives to offlineimap to store mail in mbox/maildir include getmail
> (which is what I use) and fetchmail.
The main drawback of this approach is that you have to copy all your
mailbox in every location.
This mean several GiB for me.
That's why I would prefer to keep everything on the IMAP server (and
periodically backup it in a single computer).
>>> About message composition, do you have any recommended editor, given
>>> the fact that I never used a lot Vi nor Emacs?
>>
>> I use emacs with post-mode.
>
> sup's keybindings are modeled largely after mutt's, and not really modeled
> after neither vim nor emacs, so you don't have any benefits in learning
> how to use sup if you already know how to use vim/emacs (or vice versa).
> sup has a setting where you can change your preferred editor. As far as I
> remember, the tool that initially writes the configuration (`sup-config')
> defaults to vim.
> Personally, I use vim with mail-syntax-hilighting.
That's true: *sup* initially selects vim as default mail editor.
I never had before special requirements for text editor and therefore
gedit was enough.
Do you think is worth spending time to learn a text-based editor even
for writing e-mails?
Cheers,
--
Lurkos
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sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
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* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-27 20:26 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-27 20:57 ` Moritz Wilhelmy
@ 2010-11-28 1:27 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 9:21 ` Damien Leone
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-28 1:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr> wrote:
>> I've read in the latest History file that IMAP support is deprecated.
>> Are you going to drop it? I mainly use IMAP to read my e-mail boxes,
>> because I need to deal with them from different workstations (say:
>> home, office, laptop, etc.).
>> For this reason the local Maildir approach won't work for me.
>
> You can use offlineimap to fetch e-mails from your IMAP server and
> save them as Maildir that are then added in sup. By setting your hooks
> properly you can automatically call offlineimap before polling (see
> the wiki).
>
>> Are the labels stored in a local database or also stored as flags via IMAP?
>> Of course the second choice would be much more beneficial for people
>> using e-mail from different locations.
>> What happens if a new message is added to the mail spool from another
>> source? Does *sup-sync* preserve labels already associated?
>
> Everything is stored locally, sup does not modify the Maildir sources
> but there is a maildir-sync branch that allows you to keep
> synchronized in both directions between your IMAP server and your sup
> database. This is still under development though.
This seems really interesting... and possibly a indication that the
IMAP support would not be dropped.
Thanks for your answers.
Cheers,
--
Lurkos
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sup-talk mailing list
sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-28 1:27 ` Lurkos
@ 2010-11-28 9:21 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-28 14:05 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Damien Leone @ 2010-11-28 9:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Excerpts from Lurkos's message of dim. nov. 28 02:27:14 +0100 2010:
> This seems really interesting... and possibly a indication that the
> IMAP support would not be dropped.
What I meant exactly is that with this branch sup modifies your
Maildir sources, and by using offlineimap you can reflect them to the
remote IMAP server. AFAIK sup will not reintegrate IMAP support, I
think the main reason is because of the poor and slow IMAP support in
the ruby libraries.
Indeed you have to download all your e-mails but since I use sup only
on one machine this is not very annoying plus it allows me to backup
my e-mails and access them *offline*.
--
Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr>
Web: http://dleone.fensalir.fr/
GPG: 0x82EB4DDF
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sup-talk mailing list
sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-28 9:21 ` Damien Leone
@ 2010-11-28 14:05 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 14:50 ` Damien Leone
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-28 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr> wrote:
>> This seems really interesting... and possibly a indication that the
>> IMAP support would not be dropped.
>
> What I meant exactly is that with this branch sup modifies your
> Maildir sources, and by using offlineimap you can reflect them to the
> remote IMAP server.
Thanks for explaining.
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours to search for more details about
*sup*, *notmuch* and *offlineimap*.
What I still have not completely understood is how *sup* is going to
store label information inside Maildir sources.
According to this message
(http://lists.madduck.net/pipermail/mailtags/2007-August/msg00016.html),
IMAP tags would not be perfect (even if probably the best solution in
my opinion).
Another problem is that is not completely clear if *offlineimap* would
sync also these "special" tags.
> AFAIK sup will not reintegrate IMAP support, I
> think the main reason is because of the poor and slow IMAP support in
> the ruby libraries.
If ruby libraries don't support some feature that you need, it would
be reasonable to drop IMAP support.
However if the only problem is the speed, I would keep it, at least for now.
> Indeed you have to download all your e-mails but since I use sup only
> on one machine this is not very annoying plus it allows me to backup
> my e-mails and access them *offline*.
Therefore the only possible solution seems to have a personal server
running 24/7 and using *sup* via *ssh*.
Cheers,
--
Lurkos
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sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-28 14:05 ` Lurkos
@ 2010-11-28 14:50 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-29 18:59 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Damien Leone @ 2010-11-28 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Excerpts from Lurkos's message of dim. nov. 28 15:05:32 +0100 2010:
> Thanks for explaining.
> Yesterday I spent a couple of hours to search for more details about
> *sup*, *notmuch* and *offlineimap*.
> What I still have not completely understood is how *sup* is going to
> store label information inside Maildir sources.
> According to this message
> (http://lists.madduck.net/pipermail/mailtags/2007-August/msg00016.html),
> IMAP tags would not be perfect (even if probably the best solution in
> my opinion).
> Another problem is that is not completely clear if *offlineimap* would
> sync also these "special" tags.
Currently everything is stored in the xapian database that stays local
to sup. On the maildir-sync branch, only the following flags are
exported [0].
That means that you have two sets of labels, the ones on the IMAP
server and the others in sup. Usually offlineimap will create a
Maildir source per IMAP label (at least with gmail) so it is easy to
add them separately in sup and auto-apply rules for each (such as
apply a label, archive messages from this source, etc.) so it is not
too painful.
> Therefore the only possible solution seems to have a personal server
> running 24/7 and using *sup* via *ssh*.
Yep, that's my case.
[0] : http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html
--
Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr>
Web: http://dleone.fensalir.fr/
GPG: 0x82EB4DDF
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sup-talk@rubyforge.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-28 14:50 ` Damien Leone
@ 2010-11-29 18:59 ` Lurkos
2010-11-29 20:08 ` Damien Leone
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-29 18:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
*Damien Leone* wrote:
>> Thanks for explaining.
>> Yesterday I spent a couple of hours to search for more details about
>> *sup*, *notmuch* and *offlineimap*.
>> What I still have not completely understood is how *sup* is going to
>> store label information inside Maildir sources.
>> According to this message
>> (http://lists.madduck.net/pipermail/mailtags/2007-August/msg00016.html),
>> IMAP tags would not be perfect (even if probably the best solution in
>> my opinion).
>> Another problem is that is not completely clear if *offlineimap* would
>> sync also these "special" tags.
>
> Currently everything is stored in the xapian database that stays local
> to sup. On the maildir-sync branch, only the following flags are
> exported [0].
| Flag "F" (flagged): user-defined flag; toggled at user discretion.
I have not completely understood what can be stored inside this special
user-defined flag.
Here (http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/Maildir#IMAP_keywords) I
found a non-standard way to implement some flags, but I don't how if
offlineimap would support it.
> That means that you have two sets of labels, the ones on the IMAP
> server and the others in sup. Usually offlineimap will create a
> Maildir source per IMAP label (at least with gmail) so it is easy to
> add them separately in sup and auto-apply rules for each (such as
> apply a label, archive messages from this source, etc.) so it is not
> too painful.
>
>> Therefore the only possible solution seems to have a personal server
>> running 24/7 and using *sup* via *ssh*.
>
> Yep, that's my case.
Unfornately it doesn't apply to me, also because I have a standard ADSL
home connection.
> [0] : http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html
--
Lurkos
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sup-talk mailing list
sup-talk@rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/sup-talk
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* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-29 18:59 ` Lurkos
@ 2010-11-29 20:08 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-30 2:36 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Damien Leone @ 2010-11-29 20:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
Hi,
Excerpts from Lurkos's message of lun. nov. 29 19:59:28 +0100 2010:
> I have not completely understood what can be stored inside this special
> user-defined flag.
I have always seen this one used as the "starred" / "favourite" flag.
> Unfornately it doesn't apply to me, also because I have a standard ADSL
> home connection.
Same for me but since I'm the only user on the machine and that's
perfectly fine. ^^ Just a matter of taste. I use a pogo-plug running
Debian, very low energy consumption (ARM CPU) and enough performances
for my tasks (reading mails, ssh, accessing my stuff, etc.).
Cheers,
--
Damien Leone <damien.leone@fensalir.fr>
Web: http://dleone.fensalir.fr/
GPG: 0x82EB4DDF
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* Re: [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors
2010-11-29 20:08 ` Damien Leone
@ 2010-11-30 2:36 ` Lurkos
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Lurkos @ 2010-11-30 2:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sup-talk
*Damien Leone* wrote:
>> I have not completely understood what can be stored inside this special
>> user-defined flag.
>
> I have always seen this one used as the "starred" / "favourite" flag.
OK.
>> Unfornately it doesn't apply to me, also because I have a standard ADSL
>> home connection.
>
> Same for me but since I'm the only user on the machine and that's
> perfectly fine. ^^ Just a matter of taste. I use a pogo-plug running
> Debian, very low energy consumption (ARM CPU) and enough performances
> for my tasks (reading mails, ssh, accessing my stuff, etc.).
Like SheevaPlug? Seems really interesting!
--
Lurkos
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2010-11-27 18:17 [sup-talk] IMAP, labels, editors Lurkos
2010-11-27 20:26 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-27 20:57 ` Moritz Wilhelmy
2010-11-27 23:34 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 1:27 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 9:21 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-28 14:05 ` Lurkos
2010-11-28 14:50 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-29 18:59 ` Lurkos
2010-11-29 20:08 ` Damien Leone
2010-11-30 2:36 ` Lurkos
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