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From: nicolas.pouillard@gmail.com (Nicolas Pouillard)
Subject: [sup-talk] rethinking sup part ii
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:21:28 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1216891009-sup-9628@ausone.inria.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <18084-90829@sneakemail.com>

Excerpts from Guarded Identity's message of Thu Jul 24 06:55:38 +0200 2008:
> Excerpts from wmorgan-sup-at-masanjin.net wmorgan-sup-at-masanjin.net |Sup_Talk|'s message of Sun Jul 20 16:33:24 -0500 2008:
> > In which the new version of Sup is described!
> > 
> > http://all-thing.net/2008/07/rethinking-sup-part-ii.html
> 
> Your first blog was intriguing, but this second one is putting Sup in a
> direction I'm really happy with.  I'm happy about:
> 
>     Central Server
>     --------------
>     I like having a central server, so I can run clients from multiple
>     locations.
> 
>     Modifiable Messages
>     -------------------
>     There was a post I read in this thread indicating that people didn't want
>     to modify documents.   But if we handle this as a "delete/re-add"
>     operation, I'm hoping it will be fine.
> 
>     In all honesty, the modifications I'd like to do are
> 
>         - remove attachments.  Sometimes at work, people send out some
>           absolutely useless, gigantic attachments.
> 
>         - delete/expire documents.
> 
>     Documents Beyond E-mail
>     -----------------------
>     I'm /really/ interested in storing different types of "documents" like RSS.
>     . . maybe newsgroups too?  Then I could stop using snownews and slrn.  One
>     client. . . actually, for this reason, I'd tried out Emacs Gnus, but I
>     wasn't really happy with the experience/complexity.
> 
> However, I was hoping to see if I could get in a request while you're in the
> beginning stages of STS development.
> 
>     True Thread-level Labels
>     ------------------------

Here is another big design decision, note that some labels are truly message
based:

  * unread: of course
  * spam: to be sure that a spam message a response to a ham message don't
          throw away the whole thread.
  * starred: sometime it's there to highlight a message and sometimes to
             select the whole thread.

And some others are truly thread based:

  * inbox
  * most of users labels
  * killed

Since  there  is  mandatory  requirements  for message based labels and thread
based  labels,  one can provide both. Perhaps a syntactic distinction would be
sufficient:
  * a case distinction: INBOX vs unread
  * a special mark: inbox* vs unread (here the star means the repetition on
    all messages of the thread).
  * more ideas to find...

>     I was using rss2email, so the number of messages I had was enormous
>     (although I disabled that due to performance problems, Ferret corruption,
>     and the problem I'm discussion here).  I hate wasting disk space
>     needlessly, or cluttering the index for that matter.  There's some mailing
>     lists that are mostly fluff, but I wanted to save the occasional thread and
>     expire the rest.  But because messages attach to messages really, and not
>     to the thread, negation in search logic breaks.  If I search for threads
>     that have "!label:save" I can get threads that have "save" messages if they
>     also have a message not labeled "save".
> 
>     Attaching labels to message always bothered me.  I'm hoping that with STS,
>     you can consider designing an architecture that lets you attach labels to a
>     thread grouping.  I'm hoping it can be done in a way that's not too
>     terribly performing.
> 
> While I'm at it, I also have a feature request for STC (Sup The Client)
> 
>     Improved Multiple-Label Support
>     -------------------------------
>     If I'm only using one label for each thread, then really there's no benefit
>     to having labels over folders.  So to really get the benefit of labels, it
>     would be nice to be able to attach more than one of them in a more
>     convenient way.
> 
>     There's a couple of ideas I had on how to do this:
> 
>         Label Hierarchies
>         -----------------
>         if you use one label, it automatically pulls in another.  But I wasn't
>         sure how to manage this with the Sup UI.
> 
>         Label Recommendations
>         ---------------------
>         When using tab-complete for labeling, I see all my labels initially.
>         By now, it's an overwhelming list, and I have to hunt for the label I
>         really wanted.  What would be nice is if Sup keeps an index of all
>         label combinations (and perhaps their frequencies).  Then when one hits
>         tab the first time only labels that are relevant are presented.  If
>         those aren't adequate, then one might hit tab to cycle to a listing
>         including the rest of the labels.  Or perhaps without cycling, all
>         labels can be listed by frequency; that way, the hunt for the most
>         relevant label won't be so bad.

Hum,  that's  a  very  interesting feature. This reminds me delicio.us. In the
same  line,  be  able  to  share popular/public labels for discussion could be
very nice.

Let's  imagine  that  public  tagging  is  done using public:foo labels, users
could  share  some  labels  using  public  ones.  Then  in  answer  message an
X-Public-Labels  header  is  added  and  then suggested to users when applying
labels.

> 
>     So Sup probably didn't have this kind of feature because of the stronger
>     advocacy for:
> 
>         - automated label attachment with hooks
> 
>         - not relying on labels as much as one relies on the search engine for
>           keyword queries (the GMail way)
> 
>     But at work, people send me too many messages with too many different types
>     of contexts.  It would take quite a bit of AI to auto-categorize these
>     messages.  Keyword searches are maybe okay for some of these messages, but
>     it's not really perfect.  Sometimes I have to run through synonyms for
>     certain concepts.  Better label management would really help me at work.
> 
> Okay, so those are the requests I have thus far.  Hopefully they aren't too
> far off base from what you are interested in doing with Sup/STS.  I'm happy to
> talk through concepts on this list.  And although I'm still working up my Ruby
> skills, I'm happy to try to contribute code.
> 
> By the way, are you set up to get these kinds of feature requests with ditz?  I
> didn't see a ditz "bugs" database (folder) in my git clone of Sup.  Or are you
> just using ditz internally for your own personal tracking of Sup development?

It's in the bugs branch.

> 
> Seems like there's a number of places to issue feature requests:
> 
>     - this mailing list
> 
>     - ditz, if you can help me figure out how best to use it
> 
>     - a FeatureRequest wiki page, but it would be moot if you didn't make a
>       habit of looking at it
> 
> Just let us know what you prefer.

I'm not William but I would say that the mailing list is the preferred way.
Moreover attaching a git-patch for the ditz issue tracker could help.

Cheers,

-- 
Nicolas Pouillard aka Ertai
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  reply	other threads:[~2008-07-24  9:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 24+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-20 21:33 William Morgan
2008-07-20 23:28 ` Guillaume Quintard
2008-07-21  0:04   ` William Morgan
2008-07-21  5:43     ` Guillaume Quintard
2008-07-21 12:14 ` Peter Krenn
2008-07-21 15:22   ` William Morgan
2008-07-21 15:26     ` Stephen Patterson
2008-07-21 16:04       ` John Bent
2008-07-22  2:12       ` William Morgan
2008-07-23 17:40         ` Nicolas Pouillard
2008-07-23 22:26           ` William Morgan
2008-07-24  9:16             ` Nicolas Pouillard
2008-07-21 18:43 ` Lionel Ott
2008-07-23  8:45 ` Richard Heycock
2008-07-23  8:58   ` Nicolas Pouillard
2008-07-23  9:27     ` teroz
2008-07-23 21:41       ` Richard Heycock
2008-07-23 17:09   ` William Morgan
2008-07-25 12:11     ` Marcus Williams
2008-07-24  4:55 ` Guarded Identity
2008-07-24  9:21   ` Nicolas Pouillard [this message]
2008-07-25 16:00     ` William Morgan
2008-07-26  7:32       ` Guarded Identity
2008-07-25  7:18   ` William Morgan

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