Subject: Re: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt?

From: Steven Hum <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:25:23 -0400

I have used mutt with notmuch for ages and thought I would never switch 
until I came across sup recently. (notmuch, by the way is a very 
competent search mechanism - I believe there is even a mutt fork afoot 
to integrate it more seamlessly into mutt).

sup does not back sync to maildir which for me should be a deal breaker 
as I like using offlineimap/imapfilter to maintain persistent mail on my 
desktop and laptop which allows me to peruse and respond to emails even 
when I am not connected to the Internet.

Alas, I find sup so compelling a mail client that I am, for now, willing 
to put up with that serious lack. There are sup forks I have been 
looking into that appear to address this issue - but I am not sure if 
anyone is going to spearhead taking sup over officially to merge the 
work done in this area. 

The heliotrope/turnsole project is still not ready for prime time 
- beyond installation for me at least, the turnsole client crashes 
a lot.  Even then, I am not sure if heliotrope will address the maildir 
back sync issue (there is an imaptrope fork which may address this). If 
it doesn't, it may not provide me with any benefit towards my offline 
mail usage.

Like earlier posts, sup's tagging, smart conversation view (with only 
unread messages expanded - I am not sure if even Google's web gmail 
interface offers that) and facility to auto archive 
threads/folders/whatever rules you wish, just makes the email process 
more compelling and effective (for me) by eliminating inbox noise.

The big back sync issue, however, does mean sup is non-destructive, so 
is worth a look if you are one of those people who is forever looking 
for the perfect email client (that sucks less :-) mutt will stay on my 
system if sup's maildir deficiency becomes intolerable - for now, 
I foresee using it to periodically prune and manage my maildirs.

Steven
-- 
"Truth or die."

Steven Hum  
5 - 28 Gilmour St  
Ottawa, ON K2P 0N3  
email [email-masked]  
tel 613.237.9058  
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---

From: Matthieu Rakotojaona <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 01:58:34 +0200

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Steven Hum <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Even then, I am not sure if heliotrope will address the maildir

I guess you're talking about https://github.com/rakoo/imaptrope. This
was actually the only reason why I didn't use heliotrope/turnsole (and
sup before it) full-time : I didn't want to do some gymnastics back
and forth for my mail, like everyone here. That's why I started
imaptrope. Unfortunately, I arrived to a point where using http
doesn't give me sufficient speed for the task. So I set out to
integrate it directly in heliotrope.

The result of my work is at
https://github.com/rakoo/heliotrope/tree/imap. You can now run an imap
server along the http one with the following command :

  ruby -Ilib bin/heliotrope-server -d /path/to/data --with-imap

and connect to it on localhost:10142. As I explain in the README, the
goal is not to do a fully functional IMAP server, but just enough bits
to work with OfflineIMAP. This software does a great job, and will be
a very helpful tool for a smooth transition. This will be better than
reimplementing some 2-way-syncing-magic once again.

For the moment, heliotrope -> maildir works with a standard
offlineimap installation. Yay ! Don't do it on big mailboxes though,
because it will be horribly long (and by big I mean 100 messages. Yes,
that's not big, I'm working on it)

It is saddening to see that many people are interested in this great
project yet seems to be dying. I was thinking this may be due to
William abandoning sup in favor of heliotrope, and everyone still
following the former ? Anyway, I'll be happily hacking on heliotrope,
so everyone who is willing to continue is warmly invited to test
things out !

-- 
Matthieu RAKOTOJAONA

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From: Allan Wind <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:56:57 -0400

On 2012-09-19 14:15:00, Naveen Nathan wrote:
> I was wondering if any mutt users who use some of the above features
> mentioned would mind sharing their experience after transitioning to Sup.
> Although I wouldn't be surprised if people still continue to use both.

sup, afaik, is dead <http://masanjin.net/>:

I leave behind me the wreckage of unmaintained or handed-off 
projects: 
...
Sup, an email client for people with lots of mail.

You may, however, want to check out <http://notmuchmail.org/> and
<https://github.com/karelzak/mutt-kz>

/Allan
-- 
Allan Wind
Life Integrity, LLC
<http://lifeintegrity.com>
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---

From: Ico <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:43:53 +0200

> Mutt and mail savvy user here. It's my daily use client, I use a lot of
> it's features such as threading, tagging, header caching (for imap).
> 
> What it truly lacks, even though slightly supported by IMAP, is full-body
> search of email, indexing, etc.

I've been a long time mutt user before switching to sup a few years ago. Mutt
indeed lacks proper searching and indexing, but for this I found mairix [1],
which with some scripting [2], .muttrc [3] configuration and a cronjob [4] can
be integrated into mutt pretty seamless.

I eventually switched to sup not mainly for of the indexing/searching, but
because of the unique way sup keeps track of threads.

Now that sup is pretty much dead I find myself poking around in the
source more and more often, but maybe it is about time to switch back to
mutt for more stability :(

1. http://www.rpcurnow.force9.co.uk/mairix/

2. ~/bin/searchmail

   #!/bin/sh
   
   echo -n "Search for: "
   read expr
   
   echo $expr
   
   if [ "$expr" = "" ]; then
           clear
           mairix --help
           read
           exit
   fi
   
   mairix $expr

3. .muttrc

   macro index <esc>s !searchmail\nc=searched\n
   macro pager <esc>s !searchmail\nc=searched\n

4. crontab
 
   */10 * * * *   ~/bin/mairix

-- 
:wq
^X^Cy^K^X^C^C^C^C

---

From: Naveen Nathan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:15:00 -0700

Hi,

- Naveen

---

From: Alfredo Palhares <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:47:19 +0200

> search of email, indexing, etc.
What i notice the most, is *speed*, mutt gets unbearable on big mailboxes.
Also the label is approach is much better, just because having more than one label
in an thread can be very usefull.
Also prefer the UI, tudier for tilling WMs and smarthphones (altough mutt can be
customized)

> Although I wouldn't be surprised if people still continue to use both.
One thing about sup, is that you have to go cold turkey, sup does not sync
back to the mailbox. I solved that problem by placing it under tmux on a 
24/7 avaliable server, so i just ssh to tmux, from the computer, cellphone,
public machine whatever.

I eventually want to migrate to heliotrope once a decent client shows up.

But if you're on mutt and dont bother about using only one client for email,
Sup is awesome

--
Regards,
Alfredo Palhares

---

From: Jim Cheetham <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:12:54 +1200

> <https://github.com/karelzak/mutt-kz>

Well, I've moved on from sup because of the non-maintained status, and
problems with gpgme versions.
Now running heliotrope/turnsole, and in general it's fine, almost as
good as sup but with many more rough edges. Turnsole crashes a lot,
which isn't a big problem because state is in heliotrope & not the
client; but some features seem to be missing completely -- I haven't
figured out GPG signing yet. I expect that before_add hooks would need
in heliotrope and I haven't looked for them yet.

However, looking at the original post, perhaps notmuch with mutt
integration (i.e. it creates temporary folders based on searches)
would suit well?

-jim