Subject: Re: [sup-talk] [PATCH] minor nits in exception apology message

From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:45:05 -0800

[resend to list]

Reformatted excerpts from Jon Dugan's message of 2009-10-30:
> I've attached a patch that just make the BASE_DIR tweak.  I'll leave
> changing the instructions to you...

Applied to master. (Had to tweak it to make the path actually correct,
but no worries.)  Thanks!
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From: Israel Herraiz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:14:52 +0100

Excerpts from Tero Tilus's message of Mon Nov 02 08:25:38 +0100 2009:
> How about SITF responsible of the boring suff
>  - First line processing of inbound issues (relevance, duplication, ...)
>  - Issue overview
>    - Supervise that fixed/handled issues get closed appropriately
>    - Draw attention to triaged "bad" bugs
> 
> I'm in.  Who else?

Me too.

---

From: Nicolas Pouillard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:48:16 +0100

Excerpts from William Morgan's message of Sun Nov 01 17:19:23 +0100 2009:
> Reformatted excerpts from Nicolas Pouillard's message of 2009-11-01:
> > Have strong points against Ditz or this is also a lake of energy?
> 
> Both, really. Ditz was an experiment, and after using it for a while I
> decided it was more trouble than it was worth. I also realized that I
> *did* want a centralized web site after all, and not necessarily a
> complicated distributed thing, both because I want non-technical users
> to be able to submit bug reports, and because development, in reality,
> *is* centralized.

I think I see your point, however I think there is no less no more to
centralize in a bugtracker than in a source code management tool. Indeed
in most projects using a DVCS, they have a central repository, this
does not reduce the benefits of distributed tools. Distributed bugtrackers
does not necessary exclude having a central point.  What I found cool
about distributed bugtrackers is that the bug-closing action can follow
the code that fixes the bug. Being in a branch, or being reviewed...

About non-technical users, I think that just a mail (thread) on the
mailing-list could suffice. Of course some web app can make things clearer.

> (I had been doing some work on Sheila, which would've provided a web
> frontent that people could use to submit bug reports, but even that
> wouldn't be quite what I wanted.)

> Having thought about it for a while, I think what I *really* want for
> Sup is something that tracks bugs/feature requests at the feature branch
> level (i.e. assumes that each feature branch provides a new feature or a
> bugfix), has a web interface for non-technical users to submit bug
> reports and for developers to browse/modify state on bugs, and which
> uses email for discussion, like I did with Whisper. (And I would be fine
> with it being git-specific.)

Maybe Ditz is not very far from that.

> I am now spending all my energy trying to keep myself from building such 
> a thing.

Good luck on this :)

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From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:53:08 -0700

Reformatted excerpts from Jon Dugan's message of 2009-10-28:
> I was wondering about that.  It seemed odd to me to be obfuscating the email
> address at all in this context since this is an error message not a webpage.

Yep, it was intentional. As Nicolas points out, the error message is
often copied-and-pasted, and the source code is indexable via Gitorious.

The change for BASE_DIR is great though. If you remove the obfuscation I
will accept the patch.

> In my mind the usability enhancement of being able to cut and paste
> the email address would increase the likelyhood of people reporting
> errors.

I hate people reporting errors. I should actually change that whole
thing to suggest they to send a bugfix patch.
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From: Nicolas Pouillard <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:29:31 +0100

Excerpts from Jon Dugan's message of Wed Oct 28 21:22:32 +0100 2009:
> Excerpts from Nicolas Pouillard's message of Wed Oct 28 15:05:27 -0500 2009:
> > Excerpts from Jon Dugan's message of Wed Oct 28 18:14:51 +0100 2009:
> > > make path to the exception log relative to BASE_DIR
> > > fix a typo in email address of list.
> > > 
> > > ---
> > >  bin/sup |    4 ++--
> > >  1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> > > 
> > > diff --git a/bin/sup b/bin/sup
> > > index 7641401..a881284 100755
> > > --- a/bin/sup
> > > +++ b/bin/sup
> > > @@ -360,8 +360,8 @@ unless Redwood::exceptions.empty?
> > >  ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >  I'm very sorry. It seems that an error occurred in Sup. Please
> > >  accept my sincere apologies. If you don't mind, please send the
> > > -contents of ~/.sup/exception-log.txt and a brief report of the
> > > -circumstances to sup-talk at rubyforge dot orgs so that I might
> > > +contents of #{BASE_DIR}/.sup/exception-log.txt and a brief report of the
> > > +circumstances to sup-talk at rubyforge dot org so that I might
> > 
> > I think the *orgs* was on purpose.
> 

Although the error message appears in the source code, and in all emails were
it has been copied and paste.

---

From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:19:23 -0800

---

From: Nicolas Pouillard <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:05:27 +0100

---

From: Tero Tilus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:25:38 +0200

William Morgan, 2009-11-01 16:39:
> Reformatted excerpts from Tero Tilus's message of 2009-10-31:
>> How about setting up a loose team which would handle the incoming
>> bug reports (for you), track/sort all of them and fix what they
>> feel like fixing and maybe upon request/occasionally report
>> somewhere the current status (how many minors and majors open).
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, that would be great. I'm open to
> suggestions about how to organize this.

I'm in.  Who else?

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From: Tero Tilus <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:28:09 +0200

William Morgan, 2009-10-30 23:53:
> I hate people reporting errors.

:D

> I should actually change that whole thing to suggest they to send a
> bugfix patch.

Not all the people who are capable of producing good quality bug
reports are (practically) capable of producing patches.  Good bug
reports are usefull.

Do you feel burdened by bugreports sent to you or to this list?  (I
most definitely would be.)  If so, could we somehow "unburden" you?

How about setting up a loose team which would handle the incoming bug
reports (for you), track/sort all of them and fix what they feel like
fixing and maybe upon request/occasionally report somewhere the
current status (how many minors and majors open).

I could be involved in something like that if it is what you and sup
community want/need.

---

From: Tero Tilus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:19:58 +0200

rick.tessner, 2009-11-01 22:30:
> Would a move to github be considered since they now have an issue
> tracker.

I'd be comfortable with github too.

---

From: rick.tessner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:30:21 -0800

Excerpts from William Morgan's message of Sun Nov 01 06:39:25 -0800 2009:
> As far as I'm concerned, that would be great. I'm open to suggestions
> about how to organize this. At this point I'm pretty convinced I will
> never actually like a bug tracker, and I don't have the energy to write
> another one, so for someone else to take the initiative would be
> awesome.

Would a move to github be considered since they now have an issue
tracker.  It provides tagging of issues and voting.

As an example, take a look at

    http://github.com/justinfrench/formtastic/

and clicky the Issues tab.  (I chose this project simply because I was
watching the railscast for it and noticed the Issues tab)
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From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:07:31 -0800

> tracker.  It provides tagging of issues and voting.

I will move development discussion to a flat sequence of web textareas
the day you pry Sup from my cold dead hands.

Well, ok. I will at least take a look at it.
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---

From: Jon Dugan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:14:51 -0500

---
 bin/sup |    4 ++--

 address this problem. Thank you!
 
 Sincerely,
-- 
1.6.4.4

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Jon M. Dugan <[email-masked]>
ESnet Network Engineering Group
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From: Nicolas Pouillard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:49:11 +0100

Excerpts from William Morgan's message of Sun Nov 01 18:30:04 +0100 2009:
> > What I found cool about distributed bugtrackers is that the
> > bug-closing action can follow the code that fixes the bug. Being in a
> > branch, or being reviewed...
> > 
> It's funny, the two things that I found irritating do were a) close the
> bug as part of the commit (because I kept forgetting, and also because I
> like reading commits with git log -p and the ditz stuff was additional
> noise), and

I think some habits are needed in each model...

> b) translating a user's bug report email into an issue. :)

Yes this translating job can really be boring. In fact I consider every
bugtracker related task to be boring... And yes the nice part of web
based bugtracker is to put this burden on the user.

---

From: Tero Tilus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:45:24 +0200

William Morgan, 2009-11-02 17:08:
> I think it needs to be combined with some kind of formal issue
> tracker though.

Most definitely yes.  Let's see where the tracker discussion goes.

---

From: Jon Dugan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:22:32 -0500

In my mind the usability enhancement of being able to cut and paste the email
address would increase the likelyhood of people reporting errors.

Obviously not a big deal either way...

Jon

---

From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:30:04 -0800

noise), and b) translating a user's bug report email into an issue. :)

---

From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:39:25 -0800

---

From: Nicolas Pouillard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:24:22 +0100

---

From: William Morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:08:48 -0800

>    - Draw attention to triaged "bad" bugs

That sounds great. I think it needs to be combined with some kind of
formal issue tracker though.
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