From naveen@lastninja.net Wed Sep 19 21:15:00 2012 From: naveen@lastninja.net (Naveen Nathan) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:15:00 -0700 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? Message-ID: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> Hi, Mutt and mail savvy user here. It's my daily use client, I use a lot of it's features such as threading, tagging, header caching (for imap). What it truly lacks, even though slightly supported by IMAP, is full-body search of email, indexing, etc. I was wondering if any mutt users who use some of the above features mentioned would mind sharing their experience after transitioning to Sup. Although I wouldn't be surprised if people still continue to use both. - Naveen From masterkorp@masterkorp.net Wed Sep 19 21:47:19 2012 From: masterkorp@masterkorp.net (Alfredo Palhares) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:47:19 +0200 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> Message-ID: <1348090678-sup-2446@masterkorp.net> Excerpts from Naveen Nathan's message of Wed Sep 19 23:15:00 +0200 2012: > Hi, > > Mutt and mail savvy user here. It's my daily use client, I use a lot of > it's features such as threading, tagging, header caching (for imap). > > What it truly lacks, even though slightly supported by IMAP, is full-body > search of email, indexing, etc. What i notice the most, is *speed*, mutt gets unbearable on big mailboxes. Also the label is approach is much better, just because having more than one label in an thread can be very usefull. Also prefer the UI, tudier for tilling WMs and smarthphones (altough mutt can be customized) > I was wondering if any mutt users who use some of the above features > mentioned would mind sharing their experience after transitioning to Sup. > Although I wouldn't be surprised if people still continue to use both. One thing about sup, is that you have to go cold turkey, sup does not sync back to the mailbox. I solved that problem by placing it under tmux on a 24/7 avaliable server, so i just ssh to tmux, from the computer, cellphone, public machine whatever. I eventually want to migrate to heliotrope once a decent client shows up. But if you're on mutt and dont bother about using only one client for email, Sup is awesome -- Regards, Alfredo Palhares From allan_wind@lifeintegrity.com Wed Sep 19 21:56:57 2012 From: allan_wind@lifeintegrity.com (Allan Wind) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:56:57 -0400 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> Message-ID: <20120919215657.GA17624@lifeintegrity.com> On 2012-09-19 14:15:00, Naveen Nathan wrote: > I was wondering if any mutt users who use some of the above features > mentioned would mind sharing their experience after transitioning to Sup. > Although I wouldn't be surprised if people still continue to use both. sup, afaik, is dead : I leave behind me the wreckage of unmaintained or handed-off projects: ... Sup, an email client for people with lots of mail. You may, however, want to check out and /Allan -- Allan Wind Life Integrity, LLC From jim@gonzul.net Thu Sep 20 00:12:54 2012 From: jim@gonzul.net (Jim Cheetham) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:12:54 +1200 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <20120919215657.GA17624@lifeintegrity.com> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> <20120919215657.GA17624@lifeintegrity.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Allan Wind wrote: > On 2012-09-19 14:15:00, Naveen Nathan wrote: > sup, afaik, is dead : > > I leave behind me the wreckage of unmaintained or handed-off > projects: > ... > Sup, an email client for people with lots of mail. > > You may, however, want to check out and > Well, I've moved on from sup because of the non-maintained status, and problems with gpgme versions. Now running heliotrope/turnsole, and in general it's fine, almost as good as sup but with many more rough edges. Turnsole crashes a lot, which isn't a big problem because state is in heliotrope & not the client; but some features seem to be missing completely -- I haven't figured out GPG signing yet. I expect that before_add hooks would need in heliotrope and I haven't looked for them yet. However, looking at the original post, perhaps notmuch with mutt integration (i.e. it creates temporary folders based on searches) would suit well? -jim From sup@zevv.nl Thu Sep 20 06:43:53 2012 From: sup@zevv.nl (Ico) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:43:53 +0200 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> Message-ID: <1348123080-sup-7217@pruts.nl> > Mutt and mail savvy user here. It's my daily use client, I use a lot of > it's features such as threading, tagging, header caching (for imap). > > What it truly lacks, even though slightly supported by IMAP, is full-body > search of email, indexing, etc. I've been a long time mutt user before switching to sup a few years ago. Mutt indeed lacks proper searching and indexing, but for this I found mairix [1], which with some scripting [2], .muttrc [3] configuration and a cronjob [4] can be integrated into mutt pretty seamless. I eventually switched to sup not mainly for of the indexing/searching, but because of the unique way sup keeps track of threads. Now that sup is pretty much dead I find myself poking around in the source more and more often, but maybe it is about time to switch back to mutt for more stability :( 1. http://www.rpcurnow.force9.co.uk/mairix/ 2. ~/bin/searchmail #!/bin/sh echo -n "Search for: " read expr echo $expr if [ "$expr" = "" ]; then clear mairix --help read exit fi mairix $expr 3. .muttrc macro index s !searchmail\nc=searched\n macro pager s !searchmail\nc=searched\n 4. crontab */10 * * * * ~/bin/mairix -- :wq ^X^Cy^K^X^C^C^C^C From sdothum@gmail.com Thu Sep 20 22:25:23 2012 From: sdothum@gmail.com (Steven Hum) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:25:23 -0400 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <1348123080-sup-7217@pruts.nl> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> <1348123080-sup-7217@pruts.nl> Message-ID: <1348177473-sup-7941@monad> I have used mutt with notmuch for ages and thought I would never switch until I came across sup recently. (notmuch, by the way is a very competent search mechanism - I believe there is even a mutt fork afoot to integrate it more seamlessly into mutt). sup does not back sync to maildir which for me should be a deal breaker as I like using offlineimap/imapfilter to maintain persistent mail on my desktop and laptop which allows me to peruse and respond to emails even when I am not connected to the Internet. Alas, I find sup so compelling a mail client that I am, for now, willing to put up with that serious lack. There are sup forks I have been looking into that appear to address this issue - but I am not sure if anyone is going to spearhead taking sup over officially to merge the work done in this area. The heliotrope/turnsole project is still not ready for prime time - beyond installation for me at least, the turnsole client crashes a lot. Even then, I am not sure if heliotrope will address the maildir back sync issue (there is an imaptrope fork which may address this). If it doesn't, it may not provide me with any benefit towards my offline mail usage. Like earlier posts, sup's tagging, smart conversation view (with only unread messages expanded - I am not sure if even Google's web gmail interface offers that) and facility to auto archive threads/folders/whatever rules you wish, just makes the email process more compelling and effective (for me) by eliminating inbox noise. The big back sync issue, however, does mean sup is non-destructive, so is worth a look if you are one of those people who is forever looking for the perfect email client (that sucks less :-) mutt will stay on my system if sup's maildir deficiency becomes intolerable - for now, I foresee using it to periodically prune and manage my maildirs. Steven -- "Truth or die." Steven Hum 5 - 28 Gilmour St Ottawa, ON K2P 0N3 email sdothum at gmail.com tel 613.237.9058 From matthieu.rakotojaona@gmail.com Thu Sep 20 23:58:34 2012 From: matthieu.rakotojaona@gmail.com (Matthieu Rakotojaona) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 01:58:34 +0200 Subject: [sup-talk] any testimonials from users who transitioned from mutt? In-Reply-To: <1348177473-sup-7941@monad> References: <20120919211500.GH48050@armakuni.lastninja.net> <1348123080-sup-7217@pruts.nl> <1348177473-sup-7941@monad> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Steven Hum wrote: > Even then, I am not sure if heliotrope will address the maildir > back sync issue (there is an imaptrope fork which may address this). If > it doesn't, it may not provide me with any benefit towards my offline > mail usage. I guess you're talking about https://github.com/rakoo/imaptrope. This was actually the only reason why I didn't use heliotrope/turnsole (and sup before it) full-time : I didn't want to do some gymnastics back and forth for my mail, like everyone here. That's why I started imaptrope. Unfortunately, I arrived to a point where using http doesn't give me sufficient speed for the task. So I set out to integrate it directly in heliotrope. The result of my work is at https://github.com/rakoo/heliotrope/tree/imap. You can now run an imap server along the http one with the following command : ruby -Ilib bin/heliotrope-server -d /path/to/data --with-imap and connect to it on localhost:10142. As I explain in the README, the goal is not to do a fully functional IMAP server, but just enough bits to work with OfflineIMAP. This software does a great job, and will be a very helpful tool for a smooth transition. This will be better than reimplementing some 2-way-syncing-magic once again. For the moment, heliotrope -> maildir works with a standard offlineimap installation. Yay ! Don't do it on big mailboxes though, because it will be horribly long (and by big I mean 100 messages. Yes, that's not big, I'm working on it) It is saddening to see that many people are interested in this great project yet seems to be dying. I was thinking this may be due to William abandoning sup in favor of heliotrope, and everyone still following the former ? Anyway, I'll be happily hacking on heliotrope, so everyone who is willing to continue is warmly invited to test things out ! -- Matthieu RAKOTOJAONA From matthieu.rakotojaona@gmail.com Mon Sep 24 22:13:57 2012 From: matthieu.rakotojaona@gmail.com (Matthieu Rakotojaona) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:13:57 +0200 Subject: [sup-talk] Update in heliotrope ! Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have updated my version of heliotrope on my imap branch (https://github.com/rakoo/heliotrope/tree/imap). You just have to clone it and checkout the branch. You may now synchronize your mails between heliotrope and a maildir with offlineimap. I tested most of the situations that can happen when using it (Adding/removing a label on heliotrope side, adding/removing a mail on maildir side) A few notes : * It is not "multi-write-safe", in the sense that you should stop all other activity with heliotrope while you sync with offlinimap. Concurrent access will have unknown outcome. * To continue on this point, use offlineimap with the `-1` flag, which will turn off multithreading. It should work without it though, because AFAIK offlineimap threads do not share mailboxes. But I'm not sure. * There are a few hardcoded labels/dir that you should find in your maildir, such as INBOX/inbox and "All Mail", which has no equivalent in heliotrope. Fear not, this one is taken care of. * Syncing with another IMAP server should also work,because it is transparent to offlineimap (at least from the outside) Have fun ! -- Matthieu RAKOTOJAONA